Podcast 8 | feat. Simon Holmes à Court

hey everyone Giordano here from the
juice media just a quick message to explain what this video is about as some
of you might know we launched a podcast to juice media podcast which is a
companion to the honest government ad series the honest government ads are
really effective at getting people’s attention and raising awareness about
certain topics but the podcast allows us to get into more depth on to the topic
we’ve done eight episodes and so far I’ve been uploading the podcast to our
hosts but I’ve realized that that’s kind of not really the ideal way of doing it
because here we have an audience of 300,000 subscribers a similar amount on
other platforms and it seems silly to spend all this time creating these
podcasts which are really full of information like they’re really really
valuable and stick them up on a platform on our podcast host where you know not
many people will know about us yet so we’ll still do that we’ll still upload
the podcasts on to our hosts so if you’re subscribed to our podcast that’s
fine you’ll still see it in your feed but we’re also going to start uploading
the podcasts here to YouTube so that everyone can access it more easily
without having to go somewhere else the reason I’m doing this really is that I
feel like the information that we have in the podcasts is really important we
can’t fit it into the honest government ads which are short and punchy so yeah
and I really recommend checking out the podcast if you want to know more about
topics that we discuss after every honest government ad I’m gonna be
uploading a new podcast it’s gonna be an audio only thing so you’ll just see the
little waveform that’s what we’re doing for now but as we go along if people are
into it and the podcast gets enough audience we’ll start doing a video
podcast like you’ve seen on some of the other channels on YouTube anyway I’m not
gonna waffle on much more I just wanted to do a little intro just to explain
what this video is and without further ado I’m gonna now kick into the podcast
a latest one which is episode 8 which is the companion to our honest government
had about the fires thanks for watching the
honest government ads thanks for your support patrons and everyone who
contributes in other ways we’ll see you soon for our next video
enjoy this podcast – take care everyone Giordano here from the juice
media welcome to episode 8 of the Juice Media Podcast this is a companion to our
latest honest government ad about the fires hello I’m from the Australian
government welcome to the Anthropocene fires floods bullshit I’m splitting this
podcast into two episodes because there’s just so much to say on this
topic which is the topic of the climate emergency the other reason I’m dividing
into two sections is that I have two amazing guests and rather than rush them
and try and squeeze them into one episode I thought we’d dedicate one
podcast to each of them so we can get into more depth in the next episode I’m
going to be interviewing renowned climate scientist Michael Eman who is
the director of the Earth System science center at the Pennsylvania State
University and is currently here in Australia on sabbatical so yeah we’re
going to be speaking to one of the world’s leading experts on climate shit
fuckery but in this episode we’re going to be talking about some of the
solutions that are available to us right now to get ourselves out of this shit
show mainly technological and economic solutions I want to make that clear
because there are also other solutions from a perspective of indigenous
knowledge we’re not covering those in this podcast but nevertheless really
this is if for anyone who’s wondering like what is the state of renewables how
realistic is it that we can make a shift to a zero emissions economy and society
before it’s too late this podcast is going to be really
interesting for you and who better to take us through and help us understand
the lay of the land then our guest today which is simon
homes accord Simon is a whole bunch of things he’s
described as an energy transition specialist
he’s an intrapreneur he’s a senior adviser to the energy transition hub at
the University of Melbourne he’s been a pioneering force in the Australian
communities power movement as the founding chair of Hepburn wind the
country’s first community owned wind farm which basically powers the whole
town of Daylesford in central Victoria but apart from all that he is also super
active on Twitter where he’s constantly slang trolls and helping to decode their
never-ending stream of bullshit that comes out of our government relating to
climate policy energy renewables and all that so welcome so much to the podcast
Simon please can you give us a sense of what’s where are we at after the fires
yeah well since since Christmas and I guess the lead-up to Christmas the the
interest in this area has just skyrocketed the amount of get engagement
I’ve had online I mean I believe leave these leave the satire to you guys but
the response to your last video I think it’s been phenomenal but I’ve found such
a receptive audience out there people really wanting to know more I think
we’re both I’m keying into into something in common quite powerful that
I think pretty much everyone knows we’re being lied to but they don’t quite know
how that the levels of trust in in the communication from from government and
those who are frustrating a climate action the levels of misinformation are
it’s really high and it’s and it’s pretty transparent everyone but not
everyone knows how they’re being lied to and I spend a lot of time fact-checking
putting putting new facts out there or effects that people haven’t haven’t yet
joined the dots helping people join the dots on things and the the interest in
that over the last couple of months has been for me to use that word that we’re
hearing a lot right now it’s been unprecedented I’ve been following your Twitter since
we were we made an honest government ad about the renewable energy it was in um
2018 and I came across your Twitter page and it was just a mine of information
and you know it really helped me to get a lot of facts and stats that you’ve
been digging out and bringing out into the public arena and since then your
Twitter profile has grown and you’ve made a lot more friends and probably a
lot more enemies along the way but can you talk a little bit about that because
I feel like there’s a whole new Job Description out there that’s been
created which is the communicator we have climate scientists and we have
engineers but there’s a gap between those people and the general public like
climate scientists and engineers speak a language that the general public doesn’t
understand fully there’s a level of illiteracy which is completely natural
but then now this role of communicators as intermediaries to basically take the
science takes to take the complex stuff about climate science emissions
renewables and put them in terms that people can understand and I see you as
one of those communicators that has come out is that kind of how you see your
role well what is how do you see your role I think I think you’ve now that one
thing that really sticks out to me in Australia people talk about the energy
debate and there is a acknowledge there there’s an energy debate that we see
play out in the media and we see it play out in Canberra every week that we went
on to long-form interviews on ABC with a politician talking about about energy
policy there’ll be front pages it’s been going on for for most of the last decade
and almost every one of those is absolute bullshit the very few
commentators understand the topic material and pretty much know
politicians you know with the exception of a very few but certainly not the ones
that you hear on the radio understand how the energy system works and you
would think that there is a great debate about whether or not we’re going to go
renewables in Australia or whether we’re not going to decarbonize the facts on
the ground are really different we we you know it’s not a matter now of if
we’re going to transition or when we we have been transitioning
the energy sector electricity sector for nearly 20 years now and it’s been
accelerating we’re making good progress we’re if the acceleration were to
continue will be making great progress what’s going on on the ground is very
different from what you hear in Canberra so communicating that to people explain
to them how the energy transition is going what’s likely to turn out why
decisions being made by industry and really in a lot of ways why why the
government it’s not in the steering you know then they’re not in the driver’s
seat on this they certainly have done many things in the past to frustrate the
development many things there many roadblocks that industry’s trying to
work through that government is well-placed to remove but really the
energy transition is being driven by economics and technical advances and
it’s not it’s not something that it will be decided by the outcome of some debate
in Parliament or on the front pages of the newspapers well that’s really
reassuring to hear that the economy is driving the transition but then you
wonder why the fuck aren’t we the world leaders in renewable energy and of
course that’s because our government has been putting the brakes and slowing down
that transition and is a long so sorry history of shit fuckery and I was
wondering perhaps you could give us a bit of an overview of that history of
shit fuckery and where we are in your renewables now and where we could be if
someone explained to me recently that that investors run and run from
uncertainty so in during the during the last couple of decades we had the
renewable energy target in Australia which said a very clear signal to
investors on where the country was going so it was to lift renewables in
Australia from 8 to 20 percent in by by 2020 and whose policy was that there was
the ironically it was John Howard introduced in 2001 the the mandatory
renewable energy target right the aim of which was to lift renewables in
Australia from 8% to 10% so very small increment and I was at a time when the
energy system was expanding very quickly so it wasn’t seen as much of a threat at
all they were the pie was growing larger and
they were going to give a little bit more to renewables so it wasn’t seen as
really being in competition and it wasn’t a
threat to the coal industry around the end of the 2000s growth and energy
started slowing down significantly and that with there was a lot of concern
with the millennial droughts helped bring Kevin Rudd into power labour ran
on the policy to lift it from the 10% to to 20% target and there was strong
bipartisan support for this around 2013 it appeared it became apparent that we
were going to hit that target really early and we’re actually on track to hit
28 percent by 2020 so Tony Abbott commissioned a review to
try to kill the target and and try to try to stop it in its tracks and
fortunately for him the the review found that that renewables were the best way
of bringing prices down that under that the best the best outcome for consumers
was to to leave to leave the target in place he picked the middle position they
cut the target back so we would we would have a bigger industry a bigger a bigger
renewables industry right now if it hadn’t been for the very significant
slashing back of the target in 2015 so we’re now at about 22 percent renewable
in Australia and on track within a couple two to three years to be at 33
percent so we’re gonna make about as much progress in the next three years as
we made in the last 13 alongside the renewable energy target
that was also the emission trading scheme that that Labour brought in under
Gillard just correct me if I’m saying something wrong yeah and you tweeted
something about if that had been in place right now
farmers would be reaping billions in profits from the emission trading scheme
I think I’m just paraphrased to you but it was really the part of the clean
energy future package of the Gillard government was was the the carbon price
which were emissions trading scheme with a which had a three year fixed price at
the beginning which which was called by ultimately by the media and by
politicians a carbon tax it wasn’t a carbon taxes mission trading scheme and
it was set up to transition to link to the European climate carbon trading
scheme such that Australians could buy and sell credits into the European
market now that stage it was thought that we would be buying credits from
Europe that that they were going to be cheaper in Europe than Australia and our
big polluters would go we would go to Europe buy credits there to extinguish
their liabilities here interesting as that as things have panned out the the
European credits have increased significantly in price so way more than
what it would cost us to make credits in Australia now to create credits in
Australia we can do that through tree planting biosphere restoration better
burning regimes there’s all sorts of things we can do to create high quality
carbon credits and we can do that cheaper than anyone in Europe can do it
so if the scheme has been left in place our farmers would be in a position to be
selling billing at literally billions of dollars worth of credits to Europe so we
run include that you know the Nationals who fought really hard against the
carbon price have really cheated their constituency out of out of the out of a
very you know what could be a very lucrative export market for Australian
oh and listen as you did to the podcast senator Matt kanavan and Barnaby Joyce
have launched way over a nine weather board and iron and you know they go on
this kind of very idyllic exploration of how they’re looking after working
families and small business and the best way
to do that is to build the this you know more coal mines and at one point I
nearly expect my coffee because kanavan says you know it’s so great that we’ve
got the sadhana coal mine starter because one day I’ll take my Sun Moon
I’ll show him the Carmichael mine and I say son you know I did that and my
feeling is that his son is gonna want to punch him in the face because everything
will be dead around him hopefully his son drags him to the Barrier Reef and
said yeah yeah what was what was this dead Barnaby Joyce they make a really
interesting point he said we’ve had this debate over and over about whether
carbon where the coal is profitable where the coal mines are the best way to
do it and we’ve won that argument over and over since the 2010 election we keep
winning that argument and I’m not sure that I mean I’m not sure they are you
ask you ask any any expert on energy and everybody knows that coal is no longer
the cheapest way of creating energy now one thing that a lot of people don’t
understand is that existing coal if you’ve got a if you’ve got a fully
depreciated coal plant that you bought so an example Vail’s Point up in New
South Wales cost its owner million dollars as part of the Abbott
government’s asset recycling program government state governments were
strongly encouraged to sell off their sell off their assets so New South Wales
privatized their whole electricity system sold vales point Power Station
for 1 million dollars now that’s an incredibly cheap asset
that you feed a bit of coal into an out comes power if you don’t have to pay
more than whatever your costs of that million dollars was I mean less that the
power station cost less than the average Sydney home it’s phenomenal right now if
you wanted to build that station from scratch it would cost you 3 billion and
if you pay 3 billion for the coal power station you’re never gonna make any
money out of it if you pay 1 million you can make you know you make Bank and and
they are ironically we just heard this week that the government’s about to give
11 million dollars to that power station to extend its life crazy times crazy
times really even but no the economic case old call so sorry just to highlight
the point so it’s not that coal is profitable it’s some people are making
money out of it because it’s being propped up by government but otherwise
it’s completely we’re constantly being lied lied to in in this debate you know
there’s a there’s some concept that we that we need to build new coal power
stations in Australia when we when we go to the energy market operator and ask
them to tell us how the system is likely to develop and we do that every every
couple of years the energy market operator puts out a document called the
integrated system plan it’s pretty technical they work they work pretty
hard to make it readable and it’s getting it’s getting a lot better but
unless your energy geek you’re gonna fall asleep well you need to do well
before the to 300 pages that it is and the 600 pages of appendices but that
document submits the most rigorous study ever done of the Australian energy
system and what it tells us is that the cheapest path forward is going to be
it’s going to be put more renewables in renewables and storage I think there’s a
lot of confusion around the storage we don’t need as much as some people think
we need and we don’t need new advances in technology which all they’re really
it’s all ready to go and that’s that’s quite a dangerous frame we will hear the
government talking a lot more about technology over the next few weeks
they’re about they’re putting together a road map technology roadmap setting up a
frame that your climate action is good but we need new technology to get there
and that technology hasn’t been invented yet so you sit sit sit tight wait for us
wait wait for us to deliver something but no we know we know that we have
solutions right now for about 70% of emissions so we should be yeah we ask
that we have started it’s not where they’re gonna push the Go button the
question is how how fast we’re going to do it and the government is not making
any meaningful progress on helping helping industry to do this so in terms of being lied to and
honestly being bullshitted the government’s one of the probably the top
pick in this department is the government’s claim that emissions are
coming down that we’re going to meet and beat our targets we hear that mantra
repeated constantly is that what’s the factor so in in the electricity sector
emissions are coming down renewable energy is pushing coal out of the system
we’ve had 13 coal power stations closed since 2012 in Australia and we’re not
burning any more gas since then and renewables have increased so renewables
have helped us very much reduce the emissions in the electricity sector but
electricity sector is only one third of the economy and all the other sectors of
the economy pretty much pretty much all of them are going in the wrong direction
and uh negating what’s happening there so well it might be true to say
emissions are coming down in one sector in 2/3 the other two-thirds of the
economy they’re not in fact our emissions have been stagnant for the
last well since since since we had a change of government area nations have
been stagnant and they are expected the government’s own numbers show that there
will be no material change between now and 2030 so we’re not reducing emissions
and the government has no plan to do it now as whether we’ll meet our Paris
targets the government’s own numbers that they released just before Christmas
show that no we won’t we won’t get the twenty six percent
reduction will get more like a 12% reduction between now and 2030 and the
way they take it to the saying they hit the target is to use these Kyoto credits
right so who negotiated the Kyoto credits where did that where did that
bullshit come out of well there’s so the original Kyoto credits the Kyoto
Protocol was was was negotiated back in 1997 row it’s ancient history
the Australian negotiators I know someone who was there and and and she’ll
carry to the grave her guilt for her for what the Australian Government made her
do Australia held those talks in Kyoto to ransom we said we would only agree to
the Kyoto Protocol if Australia was allowed to increase their emissions so
we special cause in the Kyoto Protocol these rich people call the Australia
cords cause we’re australia’s target was a
hundred and eight percent we were allowed to increase our emissions well
and just to add an insult injury once the containment was negotiated we then
refused to sign it so so it wasn’t until 2007 just after that was one of Kevin
Rudd’s this is a definition of shit fucker area right that is shit fucker
area that we said to people we’re not going to sign it
we will scuttle this international agreement unless we can increase our
emissions so we set a really high baseline for Australia and then when we
and that baseline was set based on a year when land clearing was out of
control in Queensland and that that’s a certain amount of shit factory there too
right we used that as our baseline our worst possible year and we negotiated
108 percent from it and then we refused to sign the agreement so when we came in
slightly below that we claimed those always thinking we need to make an
honest government ad like a retrospective we just you know we said
it in 1989 and we make because that’s you could make that exactly this is this
is some of the biggest shit fucker that Australia that Australia’s done so so
that so the global economy oh the global community thought it was better that we
were in the agreement then we were we were outside trying to tear it down but
we were one of the only countries not to sign the agreement and it wasn’t until
2007 that we did now when we did better than our worst year we we were given
credits right so those you could you could say they’re you know they’re fake
that they’re fake credits right it’s not that we it’s not that we did anything to
earn them what we did was negotiate really hard in 1997 that was our
crowning climate achievement for this year from 1997 to 2020 our crowning
achievement internationally was to negotiate a higher target and then do
nothing and sit back and earn the credits now as far as using those
credits in the Paris agreement there is no framework to do so we in fact that
was one of the biggest sticking points in Madrid the the climate conference
last December where then that the rules of the of the Paris agreement the fine
that the market rules are still being negotiated Australia was the only
country saying we want to use Kyoto credits and we’re going you know we
intend to do less than other countries because we have all these credits from a
previous scheme but there’s yet no legal framework to do so and certainly you
know they’re absent from a large number of countries for Australia to cheat so I mean as a historian because what
you’ve just given us is a history of policy foreign policy in terms of
Australia’s involvement and in these climate talks which will define really
the this the century for Humanity but also the you know sort of domestic
policy with you know emission trading schemes and those sort of things and you
know as a historian I just you know I just feel like this is why I said we
need to go back and make a video about this is that if you don’t understand the
the role that Australia has played in the past in terms of setting up these it
is very unfair immoral basically game you don’t understand why now claiming
these credits now is kind of like you could say look yes we were there was
shit fucker in the past but now we clean now we’re gonna do it but the fact that
we’re claiming those credits is basically repeating that and we’re
trying to claim those credits there’s no agreement whatever to do so at the
Madrid conference at the end of every day the all the NGOs get together and
have an award ceremony fossil of the day they award they would have a fossil to
to the country that has done the most during that day to undermine progress
and Australia won and when fossil the day five times right which was more than
any other country yeah and that’s not atypical at these things I mean we saw
at the Pacific forum I mean we literally reduced people to tears
that is the frustration that this that our government I mean like you know we
have to kind of we can’t always externalize it kinda like they then kind
of think this is this is who we voted in collectively you know it’s it’s a
collective shame really that that everyone should feel and take to the
next election but on the point of this fossil award I wanted to take us onto
the next point which is something else that you’ve written about the mantra
that often gets repeated that we only contribute 1.3 percent of global
emissions and therefore I mean this argument was really popularized very
powerfully by Alan Jones with his bowl of rice sort of visual metaphor which
was obviously a very powerful image because it affected a lot of people and
you’ve kind of unpacked that a little bit Australia is responsible for 1.3
percent of the current warming that’s not good that’s the bad news we’re
responsible for 1.3 percent the good news is we only
both 41.3% of the solution like we don’t have to carry the whole world on we’ve
we’ve got with responsible for a slice and we can fix our slice now we’re
actually in a position where we’re a wealthy country we’ve we’re great
technology developers there’s an opportunity for us to play a much bigger
role for and not notwithstanding all of the coal we that we export right now is
increasing emissions in all sorts of other countries so you could if we took
ownership for those you could say we’re responsible for four to five percent of
global emissions for coal and gas we export we’re we’re we could be exporting
a whole lot of technology and green hydrogen green ammonia that could reduce
emissions around the world what would that actually look like because when
people talk about we could export renewable energy I think a lot of people
go what and well how do you explore solar because everyone gets like people
who have no idea what does that actually mean like how do you how do you export
renewable so there are three ways that we can export renewable energy there the
first one is that we can we can export energy in goods we currently export a
lot of energy in the form of them of aluminium ingots aluminium some people
have called in the past congealed energy it takes an immense amount of energy to
create our mininum and it’s one way that energy is moved from parts of the world
that have surplus energy to parts that don’t have enough so there are other
goods like zinc and and to some extent the steel is energy intensive good so we
can put our clean energy into those materials and export them around the
world so transform goods value-adding raw raw
goods is one way another way is is cables and now a little while ago it
seemed absolutely fanciful but there is a fascinating project at the moment that
was just announced a couple of months ago son cable backed by Mike Cannon
Brooks and Twiggy forest that’s for powering Singapore
that’s for it’ll create I think if I’m right about 15 percent of the power that
Singapore uses soap or an underwater cable yeah a cable or it’ll be the
world’s largest if it went if it were built now it’d be the world’s largest
solar farm Nick near Tennant Creek and the world’s largest battery by a long
way cable would go to Darwin and through Indonesian waters
up to Singapore and provide about 15% of power in Singapore and and do so for a
lower cost then then doing the same trip with with the LNG that you know compress
extracting the gas compressing it into liquid form sending it to Singapore
decompressing and running it through gas turbines they they’re confident that we
can we can send it to Singapore on a subsea cable so that’s one way we can we
can export it but the third way is to create is to create fuel or hydrogen
based fuels that we can ship so whether that liquid hydrogen or ammonia which is
a very much more convenient way of transmitting hydrogen or transporting
hydrogen we can do that and and and the economics for that as showing up very
very rapidly I was recently in Germany and Japan talking about talking with
people about hydrogen I met a steel mill I’m to some crops
steel mill just in Duisburg and in there in the Ruhr Valley about 15 thousand
people in in a twentieth-century steel mill that’s very cold dependent they’ve
made a commitment that within 30 years they that the whole company will be zero
carbon and I think 30 percent reduction by 2030 which for steel mill is a very
challenging thing to do it’s one at one of them the steel industry is
responsible for at 7 percent of global emissions it’s one thought to be one of
the most difficult areas to decarbonize but they have they have a project well
underway they did their first test just in in November of using hydrogen and a
blast furnace rather than coal and they they’re um
they’re on track they know exactly how they um you know what what how they’re
going to approach the problem they’re investing many many millions into the
project but they said to me we know this but we just don’t know where our
hydrogen is gonna come from that’s yeah I said put up a hand and said that’s
that’s us that’s Australia’s job and Singapore sorry in in Japan I was I was
there last month and the met with a major Japanese shipping company and they
they know that they’ve got a decarbonize there that they’re committed to
decarbonizing by 2050 it’s not like you know they’re wondering whether to do it
like you know the Australian conversation they’re absolutely
committed to decarbonizing shipping how do
doing well hydrogen based fuel is um is is one of one of their work streams of
doing this and an ammonia is probably the product values for that and again
they asked where we gonna get the hydrogen from and prepare hands in
Australia we are we are in a position to to create this ammonia which we the the
way that we will almost certainly do it and the way they’re interested in you
know they don’t want to buy a hydrogen that comes from fossil fuels that
defeats the whole purpose we will produce the hydrogen when wind and solar
energy go into electrolyzers which basically stick a couple of wires in a
in in in in water and in a lot of people do this in physics in school it’s more
sophisticated than that now but with electricity in water we can make
hydrogen and an oxygen is a byproduct but the hydrogen we can then mix that
with nitrogen which comes from the air make ammonium and we can ship that
relatively easily to two markets such as Japan and and Germany and other other
industrial countries which have big on industry large population money is
needed for ammonia we can we can use ammonia it’s very flexible we can
extract the CSIRO have some great technology that will allow us to run it
past a membrane and pull hydrogen often we can also you can burn it a lot like
look like a lot like diesel you can it can be run into a modified diesel engine
it can be put into a gas turbine without emissions or co2 without any co2 right
some work has to be done to deal with the night and nitrous oxides but that’s
that’s all doable and they’ve got pathways to do that but it’s it’s an
incredibly flexible fuel it can be it can be we could turn our sunshine and
our wind in Australia into liquid and rather than exporting LNG we’re you know
do I guess just like aluminium is congealed energy ammonia is congealed
wind and solar earlier you described yourself as an
energy geek and I can just see as you’re talking about all this you’ve got
there’s a glint in your eye like you can see that you’ve really sort of like
what’s really exciting to me is that it is that we now have pathways for so much
so that there’s people often say how energy transition I get the idea we have
to decarbonize but how do we do it well the two simplest things you need to
know is Electrify everything and then use renewables for the electricity and
that gets us to 70% decarbonized they’re cement and some other processes I’ve
been spending a lot of work a lot of a lot of my research time on those other
industries steel and cement I visited this steel mill that’s planning to go
zero emissions I visited a cement plant that’s planning to go zero zero
emissions and I and five ten years ago people had no idea how these were going
to happen but the introduction of the European climate climate policies have
created a lot of innovation there what a proud and sad moment is in a visitor in
Belgium a a cement works that’s developed a technology to decarbonize
cement and cement about three to five percent of global emissions so it’s a
pretty pretty big pretty significant end it’s as as the world urbanize –is
there’s a lot more construction that has to go on and submit so cement will be
around and probably increasing through this century so it’s a it’s a big
problem worth solving I visited a plant in Belgium that’s
addressing this the technology comes from Australia the company did the
development in Bacchus Marsh just on the edge of Melbourne and they moved to
Europe to develop this based on a twelve million euro grant so we have this great
technology in dealt in Australia that’s less money or just a better so amount of
money that we’re paying to AGL to for the for the Vails point plant not AG but
but um yeah different different plant but yeah we’re spending more to help a
coal plant just in its life then then the villages typically it’s gonna save
us yeah you mentioned you want to say something
else about the one-point-three I mean I the one point the argument that
Australia should do nothing because we’re a rounding error right that we’re
only one point three percent um I see that yes both morally and intellectually
bankrupt as an argument and another guy I’m not sure that anyone who uses that
argument really believes that I think they just think they’ve got a very
clever you know rhetorical trick people who say that are basically saying that
11.3% is basically nothing and it won’t bother you so why bother and of course
if you were to stop paying paying taxes I’m guessing that you are less than one
point three percent of Australia’s tax base then then you know the argument is
like what would it matter if you stopped paying and of course everybody knows if
you’re if your five-year-old asks you you’re like why should I stop doing this
everyone else is doing it you would very quickly give them immoral immoral
correction that that’s just not the way that’s not our value and through
everyone knows when they go to vote that they are only one you know one small
voice we all know that we have civic duties to go forward and a great example
World War one diggers made up about 1% of the British Imperial forces but we
you know Australia has always been proud of what those diggers did and and that
we stepped up we’re not and we’re not normally a nation of shirkers or at
least this is a relatively new a new thing frustrated certainly started in
1997 back at that Kyoto conference we became a nation of shirkers when it came
to climate policy and one one didn’t keep in mind we are 1.3 percent of
emissions but we’re only 0.3 percent of global population so the average
Australian is using about four times the average citizen of the planet in fact
among among major countries we are the highest emitting country well our power
system is dirtier than China’s China’s we responsible at two to three times as
much emissions as the average Chinese far more than average Indian citizen
so we you’re among the worst and also among them the most exposed countries
Oh check that so so like what more do you want like this is like that too such
good reasons to take action if you’re if you are working in the in the interests
of Australians you are going around the world doing using every bit of soft
power we have to try to convince countries to to do to be more ambitious
on climate change the Paris agreement as it currently stands is setting us on
target for at least three degrees warming now we’ve seen what one degree
looks like two degrees we don’t have a reef left three degrees many of our
institutions many of many things that the bedrock many of the bedrocks of
civilization such as food clean food and water and you know being able to work
outside and sport and all these things they they fall apart well before three
degrees we’re on that track with the Paris agreement we don’t even know it
went three degrees because we don’t because they could be it could be far
worse than that we don’t know what the feedback cycles could be absolutely
that’s kind of what we think at the moment that would look like oh
absolutely that’s that’s something that a comet science explained to me recently
that when when IPCC says three degrees warming they have not yet included the
climate feedbacks the things that you know where we pass tipping points where
say the the the meat thing that’s coming out of the tundra and in in in the
Arctic Circle they’re not that’s not counted in so yes so it the IPCC
estimates that their predictions etc are very conservative the Paris agreement
the whole structure is that let’s agree to something and then we’ll ratcheted up
yeah so we’re expected to increase our ambition this year and then in a couple
more years from now increase it again and gradually everyone ratchets it up
now Australia should be there ratcheting every other country up as
much as they can to protect us as the front line on climate change but also
the thing that I’ve bang on about is is in a carbon-constrained global economy
Australia wins we are really well placed to we have these boundless Plains in our
poetry their windswept their sun-drenched we have the technology now
we don’t do that well capital some porn as with
the world capital some point it yep and we have relatively stable government we
have financial institutions that are well-placed to grab the benefits of
these resources and produce this liquid clean energy that gets shipped around
the world that helps other countries decarbonize do that do few countries you
can imagine well as better place this Australia there’s so much to talk about I’ve
talked about sound and maybe you know the best thing really is to wrap it up
and ask you to come back another time so we can talk about the other stuff
because there is really so much to talk about and I mean this is one of the
things that I’ve been thinking about a lot you know that climates you know that
user I use that as an umbrella for like you know renewables climate policies or
government policy and economy requires its own kind of spin off of the honest
government ad series and I’ve been really kind of thinking lately of maybe
creating a separate department that is like the Department of climate should
factory that can really focus on these things so that we can help to counter
the narrative because one of the things we haven’t spoken about in this whole
thing and this is you know we can talk about this another time but basically
that there is a huge misinformation campaign going on from News Corp we saw
it in the in the Murdoch media really are firing all cylinders with with that
in January during the fires with you know bullshit about arsonists and yeah
things and back forward as of fortunately I think a lot of that didn’t
stick right I think I think you’re most saying people realize that no yeah
what’s most saying people do recognize things that things have changed and I
don’t think that arsonist narrative really really ended up sticking because
there was a really good response I mean the the fire chief responded the police
counted I mean it was great people actually said to hang on that’s bullshit
you know and that’s kind of what needs to happen on a regular basis and you
know I feel like in the middle of an emergency with all the fires there was a
real incentive to counter it but otherwise it just goes unchecked you
know kind of thing so you know and that’s what what I really want to do
this year is to try and really check those Liars as they come out not just
from Murdoch but from the government itself and it’s also of course what you
do on Twitter I already do it and I think because the the truth is really
complex right and my one thing I try to do it you read these complex reports and
synthesize them to make to make it so that someone who’s fairly engaged can
can understand it quickly and then at one level you’ve the honest government
adds take these complex ideas and make them
two orders of magnitude Cynthia again even more ignorance so they could have
said into two minutes 20 and it sounds like you’re talking about the middle
which is like yeah a bit more meat on delving a little bit deeper might be a
little bit more specialized interest but helping people understand you’re helping
people navigate you’ve got you’ve got so much bullshit out there and we’ve got to
increase people’s literacy about the these arguments so that they can do this
themselves eventually because there’s no point constantly responding to the
bullshit or actually the idea is let’s help people become literate in the
terminology and in the words then when they see the bullshit they can recognize
that they’ve got a better chance of recognizing it themselves because they
understand that would be an amazing thing to take into the election which is
perhaps has been it two years away yeah perhaps it’s been over complicated there
right what we know from you know from academia and everyone has looked at this
thing and the solution is as I said before Electrify everything user
renewables to do it we have the technologies already to do all that it’s
and it’s already happening and to a large extent government needs to get out
of the way but create consistent rules and remove barriers in order to
accelerate this remove barriers what even having a level playing field would
be wonderful life stop propping up yeah great was crazy too we’ve we’ve got to
point the electricity system that you as the coal plants disappear they replaced
by renewables so anything the government does to prop up coal as they’ve you know
it’s been leaked that they’re about to give money to the veils point power
station to kick it on it’s absolutely crazy talk
but that that undulating that delays everything but it also the investors go
screw this we’re out of here we’re going to a country that’s like the likes of
the Australian cement company that I mentioned that’s gone to Europe because
it’s just you sit around here and listen to the radio or watch watch the news or
read the newspaper and you see that our government is not is not yet committed
to the dirty carbonization so just go somewhere where it is yeah so actually
we need the government just to kind of get out of the way as Barnaby said I
don’t want the government in my life you know great yes yes we agree yeah I mean
that’s we don’t want the government to pick winners yeah
set set the guardrails say we we we haven’t talked about Charlie’s bill but
you know had it better be my call to action yes you know the the independent
for Inga has put forward a private member’s bill for and it’s very simple
basically that we should adopt to zero emissions by 2050 target and have
five-year plans to get there now it’s not it’s not enough but like the Paris
agreement it’s a place to start and then ratchet up over time as we’ve become
comfortable I think it’s the best idea in Australian climate politics right now
and it’s really interesting it’s coming from an independent so it is Anne’s Ali
was speaking at the climate emergency summit just passed about one way to get
this through is for it to be adopted as a conscience vote like we had on
marriage equality we it seems like that both parties can’t you can’t commit to
this as parties but as individuals I think the moment has come where we’re
certainly the public is on board and the MPs are ready to listen if they are
freed from party politics and given a conscience fight so please my plug go to
climate act now.com today you and lend your voice about twenty five thousand
people have signed up already if it’s a very easy way to send a message to your
MP telling them you want climate action now with a very simple non-political I
have policy response and one of the best things is it’s a model that has been
introduced by conservatives in the UK and it works so let’s do it
what’s the URL engine climate act now.com today you okay we’ll put that in
the show notes so people can find it and it’s great because as Jean Hinchliffe
one of the student strike organizers said at the climate summit I was
following the livestream she said the reality is that politicians often don’t
lead they follow so you know if there is this kind of individual kind of push it
will encourage and on that note is that bill does it have a chance of passing
what are the numbers looking like this a neighbor hasn’t declared what they’re
doing it on it yet if they scuttle it then it’s then it’s dead so please if
you’re in a if you’re in a labor seat let pick
right here and right here MP and that website gives you a way of doing so very
easily right you can you can do a form letter or please take the time to put
your own words in because they will have a hundred times more more power but get
it in and when people often ask me like what what what can I do
we’ll do that and get your friends to do that and tell your friends why and and
you’ll probably have more impact than yeah then all the other consumer
decisions you make this week we’ve got to get progress at a federal level and
this is this is one way of doing so but that’s a great place to end for today
but thanks so much Simon for joining us and I’ve learned a lot and I could
probably write a couple of honest government ads based on some of the
things that you’ve just said so so thanks for that and thanks for all the
work that you do on Twitter like and you know it’s I know that you have fun you
can tell that you enjoy doing it but it’s also such a great service that you
provide you know and it’s great to see that and learn that moat is there anyone
on in the energy of poll Twitter that you want to kind of like that you find
also really helpful to you and that you think would be good for people to follow
I get a lot from Catan Joshi a lot of people he’s been communicating on this
for more than a decade then ket n J zero no he’s great yeah he’s fantastic again
he’s just got a real knack for communicating things in an engaging way
sometimes funny a little bit of humor but it’s just really clear and just
really easy to follow and yeah yeah I see him as soon as a yeah the next
generation dr. Karl yeah he knows how to get complex science and ideas and
simplify them down so he’s great and on climate policy and climate accounting
issues I follow Tim Baxter that’s and his team in mitchum and yeah he works
for the climate council and I’ve learnt a lot from him over the years and he
anything technical my coworker at Melbourne University Dylan McConnell
Dylan J McConnell is his Twitter handle and he’s posts really interesting
insights he really understands the electricity market so much and I’ve
learned so much from him over over the three years I’ve been working with him
and lastly Frank yot so at the Frank Frank’s with the Crawford School
of Government up there and a very great communicator I’ve led a lot from Frank –
Frankie otso Jo T zero awesome well there are some great
recommendations and of course Symons handle on Twitter if you aren’t already
following him Simon a h AC simon a h AC okay great thanks so much Simon and yeah
we’ll be back soon with another honest government net so thanks for tuning in
good luck editing that into something short and cogent well I don’t know if
I’m gonna bother editing that much because it’s just so relevant and I feel
like for people that are into I’ll cut it here and there but I think um I’ll
keep most of it because it’s just all so it’s just a lot of work anything and I’m
like let’s put a day you know awesome good thanks so much take care thanks see
ya and that brings us to the end of this episode of the juice media podcast I did
end up editing a quite a bit because we had a massive conversation but I didn’t
I didn’t wanted to keep a lot of it because it’s so important and the detail
really matters a reminder that this is just the first
half of our podcasts relating to the honest government ad on the fires so
stay tuned because our next episode dropping really soon is going to feature
a conversation with distinguished professor Michael Eman one of the
world’s leading climate scientists and therefore expert on climate policy shit
fuckery if you enjoyed the podcast please the best thing you can do is
recommend it to your friends and family and pets yeah and I’m not really
promoting it it’s really word of mouth so if you liked it if you value the the
podcast yeah recommend it as always a reminder that
all of this the honest government adds the podcast the fact that I can have
time to do this it’s made possible by our patrons if you’re not a patron and
you love the work that we do head to patreon.com forward slash the juice
media and sign up otherwise that’s all for me you’ve been listening to Jordanna
on the juice media podcast we’ll be back really soon with part two of this
podcast and with another honest government ad until then take care you


  1. Hey everyone, we'll be testing a new thing here: from now on I'll be publishing our podcasts here on YouTube, as well as on our podcast host.Why? Because the podcasts have evolved into a rich companion to the Honest Government Ads, and I feel many of you will get a lot out of them. But unfortunately, relatively few people know about the them, since our audience is mostly on YouTube and Facebook. So, instead of trying to make everyone switch to a different platform, I thought it would make more sense to publish the podcasts in the same place as our videos. Let me know what you think!

    Here's Ep 8, in which I chat with Simon Holmes à Court. If you're confused about the so-called "energy debate", if you're wondering where we're really at with renewables, if you're not sure if our emissions are going up or down; and if you've even wondered wtf those Kyoto carbon credits are all about (OMG this is seriously the biggest shitfuyckery ever) – then this is the podcast for you!

    It's 45 minutes long, so stick it on your phone and go for a nice long walk – you'll be glad you did.


  2. giordano you will never connect the dots because of your confirmation bias……maybe one day you will get to use a paint brush instead of a pencil

  3. the au gov is really good at being the big fish in the pacific pond,when dealing with PNG and many of the small island nations,but panders to china and the usa,and all their crimes against humanity

  4. Good interview. My concern is for my kids that will be in their late 90's in 2100. Don't forget that our current trajectory of +3C is also a statistical distribution, there is a chance we could get to+5C, +6C. Plus average temperature doesn't mean a lot to a human, it is instantaneous temperature that matters. As we push the earth's temperature system hotter the chances of reaching 35C wet bulb increase. At least that will shut Scomo's shitfuckery up permanently. Why does everyone go on about sea level rise when heat death will kill billions?

    2010 Sherwood wet bulb temperature.



  5. WEATHER MODIFICATION ! Why doesn't any one of these great climate scientist ever speak about the changes this causes ?
    Its done wold wide and has been done for decades ! Their is so much proof but its hidden by the fake main stream media ! Why ?
    The global agenda part of the NWO plan too bleed us dry off every cent , these Politicians an Banking Cartel are filling their pockets !
    The only smart country in the world is America he got out of John Howard's plan too bank rupt the masses!
    Julie Jillard is still charged for Treason , that is still suspended ! WHY ?

  6. Far king spot ON if anyone wants to check out tommy williams on YouTube truth honor and integrity show theres heaps of information on the state of the world people simpley neen to wake up grow a spine and stand up copy that get with it you battery sheeple wakey wakey hand off snakey.

  7. I'm glad I came back to watch this.
    Everything this man said is exactly what I have suspected has been happening all along and it took a far worse turn when Guillfraud got her hands on the reigns.
    Thank you @thejuicemedia, ans a special thanks to Simon. I may have to give in and get a twitter account to follow him.

  8. https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/special-report-icebound-the-climate-change-secrets-of-19th-century-ships-logbooks/ar-AAK4Bpc?ocid=st

  9. our Earth is suffering from fossil fuel pollution, chemical poisoning and overload, multinational corporate water extraction from our aquifers, destruction of the environment and therefore climate by large scale mining and agriculture, deforestation etc etc. Climate Change is a buzz word, but whatever we call it, all of the above is man made, the sun is not forcing us to make and use chemicals, chop down trees and factory farm animals. I think Simon's reference to creating Hydrogen from water and electricity in our water poor country is a bit worrying. He skipped the detail so I would like to know how would this happen without depleting or contaminating water resources?

  10. Why are we not disposing our trash like some other country like 100% recycling and also burning them instead of putting it into a land fill the amount of green house emissions from the land fills is phenomenal why don’t they fix this than kill greedy at its own game I hate you greedy

  11. Please watch Dr Willie Soon and make your own conclusions about global warming and why I am suggesting to burn our trash and 100% recycling does not only say trash but water too this can be recycled too

  12. Now you have lost me..Climate change is a result of the rapidly shifting North & South Pole & the Reduction in the Earths Magnetism. It has nothing to do with Carbon. Moving to a Thorium Salt Water Reactor's & Hydro is your renewable!
    anything else doesn't even come close, especially from an economic point of view.
    If you want to go where there is no climate change, choose another planet, because this one is going through a Pole flip

  13. Loved it. Just a note: using "non political" as a quality is bulshit. Everything concerning colective decisions about colective issues is political. Believing that "political" equals bad is the result of brainwashing and leads to lack of commitment and affirmation.

  14. Fossil fuels already has $27 billion subsidies in this country, lets ban subsidies for all power generation, including renewables and then coal power will go to 80c per kW and renewable power will go to 15c per kW. Everyone will switch quicker than if we have 30c per kW subsidised coal and 10c subsidised renewables like we do now.

    Finally we need to take everyone in government that is sabotaging our future and lock them up for treason.

  15. I've never heard from anyone who is benefitting from renewable energy apart from those who have the money to set up and maintain their own system privately.
    I think otherwise it's another big hoax and highly expensive to maintain and anyone living near the wind turbines are not happy at all with the noise and unsightly appearance to the surrounding beauty of the natural landscape where they are built ruining the topography, ways of country living and harmful to our Birdlife.

    Australians have been cheated by the Australian political crooked little men. Hidden Valley would have been idealic for a wind turbine farm. Homles a Court sold off all of that property for real estate gain. I guess there was little to gain from racehorse breeding and all too much hard work. It was always a wonder where all that money came from in the first place for such a massive and elaborate set up, particularly in Australian standards. Certainly not a good place for a golf course.

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