Judges To Rule On Two Cases Involving Subpoenas In Impeachment Inquiry | The Last Word | MSNBC


>>>IT WAS SUBPOENA DAY IN>>>IT WAS SUBPOENA DAY IN FEDERAL COURT IN WASHINGTON, FEDERAL COURT IN WASHINGTON, D.C., IN FACT IN TWO DIFFERENT D.C., IN FACT IN TWO DIFFERENT FEDERAL COURTROOMS. FEDERAL COURTROOMS. TWO DIFFERENT WITNESSES FIGHTING TWO DIFFERENT WITNESSES FIGHTING SUBPOENAS FROM THE HOUSE OF SUBPOENAS FROM THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. REPRESENTATIVES. JOINING US NOW NEAL KATYAL, AN JOINING US NOW NEAL KATYAL, AN MSNBC LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR AND MSNBC LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR AND COAUTHOR OF AN UPCOMING NEW BOOK COAUTHOR OF AN UPCOMING NEW BOOK “IMPEACH THE CASE AGAINST DONALD “IMPEACH THE CASE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP.” TRUMP.” THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US TONIGHT. US TONIGHT. LET’S START WITH THE DON McGAHN LET’S START WITH THE DON McGAHN SUBPOENA. SUBPOENA. LET’S CONSIDER WHAT HAPPENED IN LET’S CONSIDER WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT CASE BECAUSE THE JUDGE THAT CASE BECAUSE THE JUDGE REALLY HAD A STRUGGLE TRYING TO REALLY HAD A STRUGGLE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY DON McGAHN SHOULD UNDERSTAND WHY DON McGAHN SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO COMPLY WITH A NOT BE FORCED TO COMPLY WITH A HOUSE SUBPOENA. HOUSE SUBPOENA.>>YEAH, SO YOU HAD TWO THINGS>>YEAH, SO YOU HAD TWO THINGS GOING ON REALLY TODAY, TWO GOING ON REALLY TODAY, TWO DIFFERENT WITNESSES. DIFFERENT WITNESSES. BUT I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT BUT I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, LAWRENCE, TO START YOUR THING, LAWRENCE, TO START YOUR DISCUSSION IS THAT’S ALL GRAVY. DISCUSSION IS THAT’S ALL GRAVY. FROM THE HOUSE IMPEACHMENT FROM THE HOUSE IMPEACHMENT STANDPOINT THE EVIDENCE AGAINST STANDPOINT THE EVIDENCE AGAINST TRUMP AS YOU’VE BEEN DISCUSSING TRUMP AS YOU’VE BEEN DISCUSSING FOR THE FIRST TEN MINUTES IS FOR THE FIRST TEN MINUTES IS OVERWHELMING. OVERWHELMING. IT’S TRUMP’S OWN WORDS. IT’S TRUMP’S OWN WORDS. SO, YOU KNOW, THESE WITNESSES SO, YOU KNOW, THESE WITNESSES ARE NICE AND McGAHN AND ARE NICE AND McGAHN AND CUPPERMAN WILL BE HELPFUL TO THE CUPPERMAN WILL BE HELPFUL TO THE HOUSE’S CASE BUT THEY’RE NOT HOUSE’S CASE BUT THEY’RE NOT NECESSARY AT ALL. NECESSARY AT ALL. SO WHAT TRUMP IS TRYING TO DO SO WHAT TRUMP IS TRYING TO DO HERE IS DELAY THEM FROM HERE IS DELAY THEM FROM TESTIFYING AS MUCH AS HE CAN. TESTIFYING AS MUCH AS HE CAN. AND THE ARGUMENT HE MADE BEFORE AND THE ARGUMENT HE MADE BEFORE JUDGE JACKSON TODAY, HIS LAWYER JUDGE JACKSON TODAY, HIS LAWYER AND THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT LAWYERS WAS PRETTY MUCH, YOU LAWYERS WAS PRETTY MUCH, YOU KNOW, POPPYCOCK. KNOW, POPPYCOCK. BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, HE CAME IN BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, HE CAME IN AND SAID THE HOUSE CAN’T FILE A AND SAID THE HOUSE CAN’T FILE A LAWSUIT AT ALL TO GET THIS LAWSUIT AT ALL TO GET THIS INFORMATION. INFORMATION. JUDGE JACKSON SAID ASKING THE JUDGE JACKSON SAID ASKING THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TRUMP LAWYER, JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TRUMP LAWYER, WHAT, YOU’RE SAYING THE HOUSE WHAT, YOU’RE SAYING THE HOUSE CAN NEVER GO TO COURT? CAN NEVER GO TO COURT? ANSWER BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ANSWER BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT LAWYER, YES. LAWYER, YES. THAT FLIES ON THE FACE OF THAT FLIES ON THE FACE OF DECADES OF PRECEDENT BY THE DECADES OF PRECEDENT BY THE COURT AND IS JUST GOING NOWHERE. COURT AND IS JUST GOING NOWHERE. SO THIS IS BAD LAWYERING, A BAD SO THIS IS BAD LAWYERING, A BAD LEGAL ARGUMENT. LEGAL ARGUMENT. AND ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, I AND ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT’S ALL TRUMP’S GOT AT THINK IT’S ALL TRUMP’S GOT AT THIS POINT BUT IT’S NOT LOOKING THIS POINT BUT IT’S NOT LOOKING TO GOOD. TO GOOD.>>NEAL, IT’S A BAD LEGAL>>NEAL, IT’S A BAD LEGAL ARGUMENT, BUT THOSE ARE THE ARGUMENT, BUT THOSE ARE THE CORNERS — THE CORNERS THEY’RE CORNERS — THE CORNERS THEY’RE GETTING PAINTED INTO IN COURT GETTING PAINTED INTO IN COURT ARE CORNERS THEY’VE PAINTED FOR ARE CORNERS THEY’VE PAINTED FOR THEMSELVES. THEMSELVES. THERE WAS NO OTHER ANSWER. THERE WAS NO OTHER ANSWER. GIVEN THE LOGIC OF WHAT THEY GIVEN THE LOGIC OF WHAT THEY WERE ARGUING THERE WAS NO OTHER WERE ARGUING THERE WAS NO OTHER ANSWER OTHER THAN, NO, THE HOUSE ANSWER OTHER THAN, NO, THE HOUSE CAN NEVER GO TO COURT. CAN NEVER GO TO COURT.>>I THINK RESPONSIBLE LAWYERING>>I THINK RESPONSIBLE LAWYERING WOULD HAVE BEEN TO TRY AND SAY, WOULD HAVE BEEN TO TRY AND SAY, LOOK, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE LOOK, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE THINGS THIS GUY, THE FORMER THINGS THIS GUY, THE FORMER WHITE HOUSE LAWYER DON McGAHN WHITE HOUSE LAWYER DON McGAHN MIGHT TESTIFY TO MIGHT BE MIGHT TESTIFY TO MIGHT BE SENSITIVE INVOLVING EXECUTIVE SENSITIVE INVOLVING EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT PRIVILEGE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO BE NARROW. TO BE NARROW. BUT WHAT THEY’VE DONE IS THROW BUT WHAT THEY’VE DONE IS THROW DOWN THE GAUNTLET IS SAY NO, DOWN THE GAUNTLET IS SAY NO, NOTHING, YOU CAN’T DO ANYTHING, NOTHING, YOU CAN’T DO ANYTHING, YOU CAN’T TESTIFY AT ALL, YOU YOU CAN’T TESTIFY AT ALL, YOU CAN’T DO ANYTHING, I’M THE CAN’T DO ANYTHING, I’M THE PRESIDENT, I’M THE KING. PRESIDENT, I’M THE KING. AND THAT’S WHAT WE FOUGHT THE AND THAT’S WHAT WE FOUGHT THE REVOLUTION ABOUT. REVOLUTION ABOUT. AND THAT’S WHY THESE ARGUMENTS AND THAT’S WHY THESE ARGUMENTS HAVE BEEN SPECTACULARLY HAVE BEEN SPECTACULARLY UNSUCCESSFUL. UNSUCCESSFUL. JUDGE JACKSON IS A WIDELY JUDGE JACKSON IS A WIDELY RESPECTED JUDGE AND I THINK IN RESPECTED JUDGE AND I THINK IN THE COURSE OF HOURS TODAY REALLY THE COURSE OF HOURS TODAY REALLY DECIMATED THE ARGUMENT. DECIMATED THE ARGUMENT.>>LET’S GO TO OTHER CASE WHICH>>LET’S GO TO OTHER CASE WHICH IS PROCEDURALLY STRANGER. IS PROCEDURALLY STRANGER. THIS IS CHARLES CUPPERMAN. THIS IS CHARLES CUPPERMAN. HE WAS ASKING — JOHN BOLTON WAS HE WAS ASKING — JOHN BOLTON WAS HIS BOSS IN THE WHITE HOUSE, AND HIS BOSS IN THE WHITE HOUSE, AND HE’S ASKING THE COURT THROUGH A HE’S ASKING THE COURT THROUGH A LAWSUIT TO ANSWER TO HIM SHOULD LAWSUIT TO ANSWER TO HIM SHOULD HE COMPLY WITH A HOUSE SUBPOENA HE COMPLY WITH A HOUSE SUBPOENA OR EVEN NOW THAT HE’S A PRIVATE OR EVEN NOW THAT HE’S A PRIVATE CITIZEN SHOULD HE FOLLOW DONALD CITIZEN SHOULD HE FOLLOW DONALD TRUMP’S REQUEST, WHICH IS ALL TRUMP’S REQUEST, WHICH IS ALL THAT IT IS, A REQUEST HE NOT THAT IT IS, A REQUEST HE NOT TESTIFY TO THE HOUSE. TESTIFY TO THE HOUSE. THE ASSUMPTION BEING THAT JOHN THE ASSUMPTION BEING THAT JOHN BOLTON WILL BE ADDED TO THIS BOLTON WILL BE ADDED TO THIS CASE BECAUSE HE’S REPRESENTED BY CASE BECAUSE HE’S REPRESENTED BY THE SAME LAWYER IF JOHN BOLTON THE SAME LAWYER IF JOHN BOLTON GETS THE SUBPOENA. GETS THE SUBPOENA.>>YEAH, LAWRENCE, I THINK THE>>YEAH, LAWRENCE, I THINK THE BEST WAY FOR YOUR VIEWERS TO BEST WAY FOR YOUR VIEWERS TO UNDERSTAND THIS LAWSUIT IS IT’S UNDERSTAND THIS LAWSUIT IS IT’S NOT REALLY A LAWSUIT, IT’S A NOT REALLY A LAWSUIT, IT’S A DELAYING TACTIC. DELAYING TACTIC. WHAT CUPPERMAN IS DOING IS WHAT CUPPERMAN IS DOING IS COMING IN AND TRYING TO BUY TIME COMING IN AND TRYING TO BUY TIME SO HE DOESN’T HAVE TO ANSWER THE SO HE DOESN’T HAVE TO ANSWER THE SUBPOENA AND TESTIFY IN SUBPOENA AND TESTIFY IN CONGRESS. CONGRESS. YOU KNOW, I DON’T KNOW WHAT HIS YOU KNOW, I DON’T KNOW WHAT HIS MOTIVATIONS ARE, BUT THAT’S THE MOTIVATIONS ARE, BUT THAT’S THE EFFECT OF WHAT HE’S DOING. EFFECT OF WHAT HE’S DOING. AND HE’S GOTTEN THE SUPPORT FROM AND HE’S GOTTEN THE SUPPORT FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION FOR THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION FOR THAT. THAT. SO MUCH SO THAT THE TRUMP SO MUCH SO THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WHEN THE JUDGE ADMINISTRATION WHEN THE JUDGE HERE, JUDGE LEON, WHO’S A WIDELY HERE, JUDGE LEON, WHO’S A WIDELY RESPECTED JUDGE AS WELL IN D.C., RESPECTED JUDGE AS WELL IN D.C., JUDGE LEON SET THE ARGUMENT FOR JUDGE LEON SET THE ARGUMENT FOR DECEMBER, AND THE LAWYER FOR THE DECEMBER, AND THE LAWYER FOR THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SAID, NO, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SAID, NO, THAT’S GOING TO INTERFERE WITH THAT’S GOING TO INTERFERE WITH THANKSGIVING, CAN YOU PLEASE THANKSGIVING, CAN YOU PLEASE MAKE IT EVEN LONGER. MAKE IT EVEN LONGER. AND WHAT JUDGE LEON SAID, QUOTE, AND WHAT JUDGE LEON SAID, QUOTE, WHEN IT’S A MATTER OF IMPORTANCE WHEN IT’S A MATTER OF IMPORTANCE TO THE COUNTRY YOU ROLL YOUR TO THE COUNTRY YOU ROLL YOUR SLEEVES UP AND YOU GET THE JOB SLEEVES UP AND YOU GET THE JOB DONE. DONE. THIS IS ABOUT DELAY AND IT’S THIS IS ABOUT DELAY AND IT’S ABOUT TRYING TO RUN OUT THE ABOUT TRYING TO RUN OUT THE CLOCK ON IMPEACHMENT. CLOCK ON IMPEACHMENT. NUMBER ONE, THE EVIDENCE AGAINST NUMBER ONE, THE EVIDENCE AGAINST TRUMP IS SO OVERWHELMING. TRUMP IS SO OVERWHELMING. AND NUMBER TWO, IT LOOKS MORE AND NUMBER TWO, IT LOOKS MORE AND MORE NIXONIAN, MORE AND MORE

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